Can a tank specced, pvp geared feral Druid easily and successfully tank and kill a rogue, dk or warrior 1v1 without leaving bear form?
I see some tanked spec pvp flag running specced ferals absolutely wreck rogues in duels without even going into cat form. Just bear, roots, heal and back to bear.
It looks so cool.
Saturday, April 21, 2012
Is there a way around having "4 specs" in MoP
Under the current tree, you have to sacrafice talents like blood in the water and stampede for thick hide and natural reaction.
Fast forward to MoP talents, where the selectable talents are all joined and where is there room for thick hide? If not there, then do you give all ferals all the cat and bear abilities?
There in lies the problem. So how do you solve it?
Method 1: Merge the trees in MoP and allow feral druids and feral druids only to have to chose between blood in the water and stampede for thick hide and natural reaction within the main spec tree.
Method 2: The 2 trees in MoP grant almost identical talents to 80% of the feral tree today (fereal charge, furor, leader of the pack etc.). Actually selecting one tree or the other only matters for the talent points people are moving today.
Method 1 would have to be a special 1 off only for ferals, method 2 in practice would be no different than people going bear form in PvP today despite not having talent points in thick hide.
For people like me that glyph for hybrid use so I can tank 5 mans and still occasionally DPS in cat form under method 2 I would still generally be able to do the same thing.
TL;DR Cat and Bear are only different by about 5 talent points today. If Guardian (bear) and feral (cat) are just the new method of moving those few talents then the druids who shift between cat/bear today can probably do so in MoP for the same reasons.
What are your thoughts, is it possible to retain cat/bear shifting in MoP with 2 different specs? I believe this is entirely possible unless they specifically want to prevent it.
The devs said in a Q&A at blizzcon that they dont think tanks should be able to switch to DPS mid battle, so theyre taking that option away from druids.
Ok well theyre just putting it on a 45sec duration/ 6min cd anyways.
If druids are no longer permitted to switch mid battle does that mean pally tanks will no longer have like 12 CD's?
You will still be able to switch...It's just going to be like a prot warrior or prot pally doing dps...You can still go in cat...You're DPS just won't be as high as it might be now....As a tank anyways. I think that's what there getting at.
Well I am hoping that if we go guardian then if we happen to change forms while tanking we will not be instantly squished. We may not be able to lets say healing touch or tranq while tanking but maybe throw off a b rez or perform and instant cast operation. Sounds like they want to make it so every spec will at some time or another want to use each form. So I am hoping that includes Guardian as well.
Fast forward to MoP talents, where the selectable talents are all joined and where is there room for thick hide? If not there, then do you give all ferals all the cat and bear abilities?
There in lies the problem. So how do you solve it?
Method 1: Merge the trees in MoP and allow feral druids and feral druids only to have to chose between blood in the water and stampede for thick hide and natural reaction within the main spec tree.
Method 2: The 2 trees in MoP grant almost identical talents to 80% of the feral tree today (fereal charge, furor, leader of the pack etc.). Actually selecting one tree or the other only matters for the talent points people are moving today.
Method 1 would have to be a special 1 off only for ferals, method 2 in practice would be no different than people going bear form in PvP today despite not having talent points in thick hide.
For people like me that glyph for hybrid use so I can tank 5 mans and still occasionally DPS in cat form under method 2 I would still generally be able to do the same thing.
TL;DR Cat and Bear are only different by about 5 talent points today. If Guardian (bear) and feral (cat) are just the new method of moving those few talents then the druids who shift between cat/bear today can probably do so in MoP for the same reasons.
What are your thoughts, is it possible to retain cat/bear shifting in MoP with 2 different specs? I believe this is entirely possible unless they specifically want to prevent it.
The devs said in a Q&A at blizzcon that they dont think tanks should be able to switch to DPS mid battle, so theyre taking that option away from druids.
Ok well theyre just putting it on a 45sec duration/ 6min cd anyways.
The devs said in a Q&A at blizzcon that they dont think tanks should be able to switch to DPS mid battle, so theyre taking that option away from druids.
If druids are no longer permitted to switch mid battle does that mean pally tanks will no longer have like 12 CD's?
You will still be able to switch...It's just going to be like a prot warrior or prot pally doing dps...You can still go in cat...You're DPS just won't be as high as it might be now....As a tank anyways. I think that's what there getting at.
Well I am hoping that if we go guardian then if we happen to change forms while tanking we will not be instantly squished. We may not be able to lets say healing touch or tranq while tanking but maybe throw off a b rez or perform and instant cast operation. Sounds like they want to make it so every spec will at some time or another want to use each form. So I am hoping that includes Guardian as well.
Best Bear Trinkets
There are many flavors of bear tanking out there. But what makes the best bear tanking trinket combo? Give me dodge or give me death? A little stamina thrown in for vengeance? Agilty all the way? A penny for your thoughts. I just realized I'm carrying around 6 trinkets for my bear and thought that a little silly.
(1) Moonwell Phial
(2) Spidersilk Spindle
(3) Brawler's Trophy
(4) Stay of Execution
(5) Symbiotic Worm
(6) Ancient Petrified Seed
For the purposes of this thread please focus on tanking for new content Raids. Given, there are going to be a few fights that are exceptions because of mechanics. Let the great debate BEGIN!!!
Well I still prefer fluid death till I can get restabilizer. Runnin petrified seed reforged to dodge too.
Soft capped expertise also, just a personal preference. Typically try to avoid stam trinkets as I am a fan of agility and secondary stats. On uses feel situational, such as using plus dodge/agiliity(seed) for decimation blades, going up for beth to help with damage if healer is slightly behind, etc.
Truth be told, at this level of gear, you can pretty much run whatever feels comfortable to you, although most numbers say dodging an attack is better than taking any damage at all (more uptime on dodge>static stam on use).
I think anyways.
One of Spidersilk Spindle's attributes is: "Melee attacks which reduce you below 35% health cause you to gain a protective shield which absorbs 17095 damage for 30 sec."
Does this mean 17095 dmg total? Or 17095 dmg per hit for 30 sec?
17095 dmg total, so roughly two savage defense proc's worth, depending on AP at the time with Vengeance.
And honestly, it's up to you, really.
As you said, some fights *are* fairly situational, but, personally, as a stock standard setup, I run one pure avoidance trink & one stam.
At the moment, I run the Stam Alch trink, with mastery reforged to dodge & fluid death with hit reforge to dodge.
Granted Feral is my OS, hence why I'm still rocking the old(er) trinks.
Moonwell + APS for Baleroc.
APS + Fluid Death for everything else.
Is there any fight where Moonwell Phial is good?
I'm running Brawler's and FD while I farm MoBI and my guild is starting FL.
yes. the moonwell's huge dodge boost is excellent for baleroc.
Like you I also have a ton of trinkets in my bags...
Moonwell Phial
Brawler's Trophy
Stay of Execution
Symbiotic Worm (has not been equiped since I got Mirror/Fluid)
Ancient Petrified Seed
Fluid Death
Mirror
I have yet to see Spidersilk Spindle drop while on my (this) alt.
I wouldn't take it from a main (tank), I see it as a weaker Stay of Execution, with a much smaller shield, but no blow-back dmg.
I have passed on the Matrix twice so far, because I was tanking a run with some AGI mains (hunter and a rouge), I'm not passing again ;p
Most often I have 2 of Seed, Stay, Moonwell, or Fluid on.
Depends mostly on the fight, and if I am in an alt or mains run.
what debate? you can never have too many trinkets!
Casual Bear here.
I have not seen a mention of ricket's magnetic trinket from the FL dailies. http://www.wowhead.com/item=70144. Is this not a suitable trinket for tanking with? I figured it was but if I am wrong a turn in the right direction will be much appreciated.
It's okay, but Fluid Death (and anything better than Fluid Death) is better.
Bear in mind (get it?) that two on-use trinkets can be obnoxious with their shared mini-cd.
From your list I would go with spindle + APS.
Deleted by Tweenwolf
If u have brawlers I wouldnt use moon well for bale since that will just make it harder on your healers. I would use APS and Fluid Death til u get Matrix. That's what I did. I still use brawler and APS for h bale though
*For tank and spank: Moonwell Phial and Fluid Death. Stamina/Dodge and Agility/Crit are your best all arounds.
*Dodge: Moonwell Phial & Brawler's Trophy
*Anti-Magic: Either Scales of Life or Stay of Execution & Mirror of Broken Images
*Mobility: Scales of Life/Stay of Execution & Ancient Petrified Seed
Also, Moonwell Phial and Brawler's Trophy are perfectly fine for Bale. The length of time between Devastation (or whatever the hit that has to be dodged, not mitigated is) means you will always have one of the two trinkets up, and if you're smart, a potion of the tol'vir.
Quick question, do you guys reforge the mastery from MoBI to dodge, or keep as is?
Thanks.
(1) Moonwell Phial
(2) Spidersilk Spindle
(3) Brawler's Trophy
(4) Stay of Execution
(5) Symbiotic Worm
(6) Ancient Petrified Seed
For the purposes of this thread please focus on tanking for new content Raids. Given, there are going to be a few fights that are exceptions because of mechanics. Let the great debate BEGIN!!!
Well I still prefer fluid death till I can get restabilizer. Runnin petrified seed reforged to dodge too.
Soft capped expertise also, just a personal preference. Typically try to avoid stam trinkets as I am a fan of agility and secondary stats. On uses feel situational, such as using plus dodge/agiliity(seed) for decimation blades, going up for beth to help with damage if healer is slightly behind, etc.
Truth be told, at this level of gear, you can pretty much run whatever feels comfortable to you, although most numbers say dodging an attack is better than taking any damage at all (more uptime on dodge>static stam on use).
I think anyways.
One of Spidersilk Spindle's attributes is: "Melee attacks which reduce you below 35% health cause you to gain a protective shield which absorbs 17095 damage for 30 sec."
Does this mean 17095 dmg total? Or 17095 dmg per hit for 30 sec?
17095 dmg total, so roughly two savage defense proc's worth, depending on AP at the time with Vengeance.
And honestly, it's up to you, really.
As you said, some fights *are* fairly situational, but, personally, as a stock standard setup, I run one pure avoidance trink & one stam.
At the moment, I run the Stam Alch trink, with mastery reforged to dodge & fluid death with hit reforge to dodge.
Granted Feral is my OS, hence why I'm still rocking the old(er) trinks.
Moonwell + APS for Baleroc.
APS + Fluid Death for everything else.
Is there any fight where Moonwell Phial is good?
I'm running Brawler's and FD while I farm MoBI and my guild is starting FL.
Moonwell + APS for Baleroc.
yes. the moonwell's huge dodge boost is excellent for baleroc.
Like you I also have a ton of trinkets in my bags...
Moonwell Phial
Brawler's Trophy
Stay of Execution
Symbiotic Worm (has not been equiped since I got Mirror/Fluid)
Ancient Petrified Seed
Fluid Death
Mirror
I have yet to see Spidersilk Spindle drop while on my (this) alt.
I wouldn't take it from a main (tank), I see it as a weaker Stay of Execution, with a much smaller shield, but no blow-back dmg.
I have passed on the Matrix twice so far, because I was tanking a run with some AGI mains (hunter and a rouge), I'm not passing again ;p
Most often I have 2 of Seed, Stay, Moonwell, or Fluid on.
Depends mostly on the fight, and if I am in an alt or mains run.
I just realized I'm carrying around 6 trinkets for my bear and thought that a little silly.
what debate? you can never have too many trinkets!
Casual Bear here.
I have not seen a mention of ricket's magnetic trinket from the FL dailies. http://www.wowhead.com/item=70144. Is this not a suitable trinket for tanking with? I figured it was but if I am wrong a turn in the right direction will be much appreciated.
Casual Bear here.
I have not seen a mention of ricket's magnetic trinket from the FL dailies. http://www.wowhead.com/item=70144. Is this not a suitable trinket for tanking with? I figured it was but if I am wrong a turn in the right direction will be much appreciated.
It's okay, but Fluid Death (and anything better than Fluid Death) is better.
Bear in mind (get it?) that two on-use trinkets can be obnoxious with their shared mini-cd.
From your list I would go with spindle + APS.
Deleted by Tweenwolf
If u have brawlers I wouldnt use moon well for bale since that will just make it harder on your healers. I would use APS and Fluid Death til u get Matrix. That's what I did. I still use brawler and APS for h bale though
*For tank and spank: Moonwell Phial and Fluid Death. Stamina/Dodge and Agility/Crit are your best all arounds.
*Dodge: Moonwell Phial & Brawler's Trophy
*Anti-Magic: Either Scales of Life or Stay of Execution & Mirror of Broken Images
*Mobility: Scales of Life/Stay of Execution & Ancient Petrified Seed
Also, Moonwell Phial and Brawler's Trophy are perfectly fine for Bale. The length of time between Devastation (or whatever the hit that has to be dodged, not mitigated is) means you will always have one of the two trinkets up, and if you're smart, a potion of the tol'vir.
Quick question, do you guys reforge the mastery from MoBI to dodge, or keep as is?
Thanks.
the new talent system
i think its effing awesome anyone else with me on this, it feels much more customizable no bull!@#$ involved i love the new feral tree http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-of-pandaria/feature/talent-calculator#UZ!100122 anyone see that disentanglement at the last tier at 90 for ferals that is awesome or the new faerie swarm in the second tier pretty cool stuff imo.
Bears: What do you take as your offspec?
My offspec is currently balance, but I'm considering changing it to cat and just using my tank-reforged feral gear because it's ~15-20 item levels ahead of my balance gear. In LFR, at least, I do about as much dps in my bear spec in catform as I do in balance spec and moonkin form. It might also save me some gold on balance gear, though I do enjoy moonkin.
Do other bears find it effective to just play cat spec with tank-reforged gear? Or do you prefer to play a different spec entirely and gear it separately?
My primary spec is bearcat, and my secondary spec is either pure bear or pure cat depending on the progression boss we're working on, pre-DS it was Restoration, but my raid doesn't need me to OS Resto anymore
My gear is all bearcat reforged. If you are interested in bearcat playstyle, you can check out the guide here: http://theincbear.com/dragon-soul-bearcat-guide
Basically what Tangedyn said. But if you want your raid to be happy they will most likely want boomkin due to the fact that everyone wants ranged>melee.
Bearcat / PvP
The way I play, my primary spec is pure bear. I used to go bearcat, but I am just on the fence about whether or not my pure-bear gear (that I plan to keep that way for now) will still be more effective in a pure-cat spec than my moonkin gear/spec (which is ~362 ilevel [edit: and only pumps out ~15k in LFR, which I can do in bear gear/spec and catform]).
Edit: I actually registered on the inconspicuous bear last week, just haven't gotten around to reading it very much. I've been a Maintankadin poster for a long time but I've gotten back into using this alt recently so I figured I might as well get reading on some of the bear stuff.
bearcat and then i rotate the 2nd between pure dps, pure tank, and feral pvp.
I'm resto with a bear offspec. *shrugs* I do keep gear sets for all four specs though in case for some reason my raid needs a boomkin or a kitty, but that hasn't been the case in a long time. I think resto/boomkin or bear/kitty are the easiest to manage because of cross applicable gear, but really you can pick whatever you like best if you're at the point where your raid is sharding most of the drops or giving them to people's offspec.
I'm bear with kitty off spec. it's just how i play. i can't seem to grasp boomkin so i just stopped bothering with it
Bearcat with emphasis on Bear, and Bearcat with emphasis on Cat. At the beginning of this expansion, I abused our ability to be both tanks and ranged DPS. It was very nice, considering how the first two raids favored ranged DPS so heavily.
I swap between cat and balance. I usually stay as cat since I hate swapping flasks mid-raid and wasting my 4hr flask buff.
I keep seperate tank and dps gear sets. My cat gear is mostly what I was using for my tank set before I got an upgrade (cat is quite useful in that sense) e.g. my tank set has the 397 T13 shoulders while my cat set has the 384 T13 shoulders. My balance set is obviously completely different from my bear and cat sets.
I'm dueled spec for feral. My main is kind of hybrid; mostly dps for pvp. my second spec is strictly feral tank. although I don't tank much anymore...
Do other bears find it effective to just play cat spec with tank-reforged gear? Or do you prefer to play a different spec entirely and gear it separately?
My primary spec is bearcat, and my secondary spec is either pure bear or pure cat depending on the progression boss we're working on, pre-DS it was Restoration, but my raid doesn't need me to OS Resto anymore
My gear is all bearcat reforged. If you are interested in bearcat playstyle, you can check out the guide here: http://theincbear.com/dragon-soul-bearcat-guide
Basically what Tangedyn said. But if you want your raid to be happy they will most likely want boomkin due to the fact that everyone wants ranged>melee.
Bearcat / PvP
The way I play, my primary spec is pure bear. I used to go bearcat, but I am just on the fence about whether or not my pure-bear gear (that I plan to keep that way for now) will still be more effective in a pure-cat spec than my moonkin gear/spec (which is ~362 ilevel [edit: and only pumps out ~15k in LFR, which I can do in bear gear/spec and catform]).
Edit: I actually registered on the inconspicuous bear last week, just haven't gotten around to reading it very much. I've been a Maintankadin poster for a long time but I've gotten back into using this alt recently so I figured I might as well get reading on some of the bear stuff.
bearcat and then i rotate the 2nd between pure dps, pure tank, and feral pvp.
I'm resto with a bear offspec. *shrugs* I do keep gear sets for all four specs though in case for some reason my raid needs a boomkin or a kitty, but that hasn't been the case in a long time. I think resto/boomkin or bear/kitty are the easiest to manage because of cross applicable gear, but really you can pick whatever you like best if you're at the point where your raid is sharding most of the drops or giving them to people's offspec.
I'm bear with kitty off spec. it's just how i play. i can't seem to grasp boomkin so i just stopped bothering with it
Bearcat with emphasis on Bear, and Bearcat with emphasis on Cat. At the beginning of this expansion, I abused our ability to be both tanks and ranged DPS. It was very nice, considering how the first two raids favored ranged DPS so heavily.
I swap between cat and balance. I usually stay as cat since I hate swapping flasks mid-raid and wasting my 4hr flask buff.
I keep seperate tank and dps gear sets. My cat gear is mostly what I was using for my tank set before I got an upgrade (cat is quite useful in that sense) e.g. my tank set has the 397 T13 shoulders while my cat set has the 384 T13 shoulders. My balance set is obviously completely different from my bear and cat sets.
I'm dueled spec for feral. My main is kind of hybrid; mostly dps for pvp. my second spec is strictly feral tank. although I don't tank much anymore...
What to buy?
I have a bunch of JP burning a hole in my pocket and am trying to decide the best purchase for gearing up my resto druid.
I was going to buy an Obsidian Arborweave Tunic, to get the 2 piece set bonus, but then I got a decent chest piece drop from a heroic dungeon. If I do decide to get an Obsidian Arborweave piece, should I replace my gloves or my chest piece?
I could replace the old quest green that I'm using for a helmet, but the JP helmets aren't as nice.
My lowest ilvl equipment is my ring, trinket, and relic; should I replace one of those?
Thanks.
Relics are cheap, and one would raise your item level.
Could also maybe get the ring if you have enough jp.
If you want to continue healing (which is awesome), you should really invest in the tier chest OR the gloves+relic. The relic should be the first 378 or 397 piece you buy (assuming you have 700 jp or vp). I see you bought the cloak. I would buy the 378 or 397 healing relic then go for the tier set bonus with gloves or chest piece.
Assuming you capped VP last week, if you bought the cloak you should have enough VP before the end of this week to get the 397 relic as well (1250 for cloak + 700 for relic = 1950). I'd do that and spend your JP on the T12 gloves (cheaper than chest) for the bonus. Also, get the 378 ring and neck soon as well, those are each only 1250 I believe.
Since there's no cap on JP you can get all of that this weekend.
I would get the ring.
I was going to buy an Obsidian Arborweave Tunic, to get the 2 piece set bonus, but then I got a decent chest piece drop from a heroic dungeon. If I do decide to get an Obsidian Arborweave piece, should I replace my gloves or my chest piece?
I could replace the old quest green that I'm using for a helmet, but the JP helmets aren't as nice.
My lowest ilvl equipment is my ring, trinket, and relic; should I replace one of those?
Thanks.
Relics are cheap, and one would raise your item level.
Could also maybe get the ring if you have enough jp.
If you want to continue healing (which is awesome), you should really invest in the tier chest OR the gloves+relic. The relic should be the first 378 or 397 piece you buy (assuming you have 700 jp or vp). I see you bought the cloak. I would buy the 378 or 397 healing relic then go for the tier set bonus with gloves or chest piece.
Assuming you capped VP last week, if you bought the cloak you should have enough VP before the end of this week to get the 397 relic as well (1250 for cloak + 700 for relic = 1950). I'd do that and spend your JP on the T12 gloves (cheaper than chest) for the bonus. Also, get the 378 ring and neck soon as well, those are each only 1250 I believe.
Since there's no cap on JP you can get all of that this weekend.
I would get the ring.
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